tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1928387059735958551.post1232624207286281649..comments2024-01-17T16:15:59.682-05:00Comments on Another gay Jew: CommunityEly Winklerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14816825030719694334noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1928387059735958551.post-48543940519914423012011-11-03T20:38:58.566-04:002011-11-03T20:38:58.566-04:00Dana likes! Great post WinkDana likes! Great post WinkDananoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1928387059735958551.post-84630064568517433252011-11-02T00:20:07.532-04:002011-11-02T00:20:07.532-04:00I couldn't agree with you more Ely. Thank you ...I couldn't agree with you more Ely. Thank you for speaking up to say something that is on a lot of people's minds in a public forum. I never really understood why Judaism can't be a "pick-and-choose religion", (besides the fact that it really is but most orthodox people deny it). I'd like to believe that I take all the good that I can from the Judaism that I grew up with and leave the rest. Why should I feel resentful of having the other parts weigh me down? We have to recognize that the halachic system was developed in an era that's long gone and maybe it is out of date. I see no reason why we can't still embrace and celebrate our tradition and thus be a light unto the nations.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1928387059735958551.post-84575246057273066072011-10-27T22:38:51.735-04:002011-10-27T22:38:51.735-04:00I've noticed that as soon as you leave the NY ...I've noticed that as soon as you leave the NY / Northern NJ area, people in Orthodox shuls tend to be more open-minded and accepting of members with more lax practices. I think part of the reason is that since there are fewer shul options outside of NYC, everyone just flocks to the nearest shul in their community, whether the person is completely observant or semi-observant, and the diversity in the shul encourages an attitude of acceptance. <br /><br />I live in Philly now, and the community in center city is wonderful. There is only one ashkenaz Orthodox shul, so we get an amazing variety of observance levels within the Ortho community, and no one judges anyone. In fact, some people bounce back and forth between the Orthodox shul and the Conservative one, and still call themselves Orthodox... and no one minds at all. <br /><br />In contrast, I used to live in NYC, and before that, Teaneck, where everyone would simply go to the shul that most resembled their own specific religious practices, and everyone looked and acted exactly the same. I definitely prefer having some variety in my shul.<br /><br />-Susie (yes, the one you know) (although I suppose you may know more than one)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1928387059735958551.post-2487513726253470092011-10-27T15:19:40.596-04:002011-10-27T15:19:40.596-04:00"most members of Orthodox communities are not..."most members of Orthodox communities are not upholding every letter of the law- but instead they go to synagogue and interact with so many others on the most superficial of levels, just pretending that they're all the same level of practicing Orthodox Jews."<br /><br />Is it such a bad thing that people don't publicize the areas of their religous lives where they aren't at the level they'd like to be, or the level that is congruent with Halacka? <br /><br />I am going to chalk it up to the fact that you're young and still learning about the world. Before the Internet world blossomed, most folks had a privacy about their lives that just doesn't exist today. You've chosen to put your life on the Internet and share some of your most intimate struggles with sexuality, Torah, and connecting with others. <br /><br />There's a fine line between pretending and keeping things private, and I think that in the domain you're referring to it is perfectly understanding why people may uphold certain images. You're entitled to tell the world about your problems and areas that you feel inadequate, but don't disrespect people who choose not to publicize their struggles.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1928387059735958551.post-35716772351060065862011-10-27T12:10:31.183-04:002011-10-27T12:10:31.183-04:00"There's such a thing as Orthodox values,..."There's such a thing as Orthodox values, without upholding every letter of the law, or just wanting to be part of an Orthodox community without necessarily upholding every practice or Halacha that generic Orthodox communities have subscribed to or come to expect from their members."<br /><br />I definitely agree that there are indeed orthodox values that are not tied to orthodox practices. <br /><br />I would like to ask: Do you think this type of Judaism can and will be sustained for many generations to come? Can it last?Evan Hnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1928387059735958551.post-82417521542696556012011-10-27T10:31:41.014-04:002011-10-27T10:31:41.014-04:00" ....live and let live- no one person, group..." ....live and let live- no one person, group or community has the right to judge another"<br /><br />It's good you put that out there, as a preface for later statement-<br />"It's because in general, most members of Orthodox communities are not upholding every letter of the law- but instead they go to synagogue and interact with so many others on the most superficial of levels, just pretending that they're all the same level of practicing Orthodox Jews."<br /><br />When you write things like this it's difficult to support you.confusednoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1928387059735958551.post-3552307139875821012011-10-27T10:21:23.887-04:002011-10-27T10:21:23.887-04:00Basically, the only point of religion from these c...Basically, the only point of religion from these communal orthodox communities is to have social and extrinsic beliefs met and fulfilled. There is nothing intrinsically Jewish about these communities if all they care about is getting together, socializing, making friends, creating solidarity, without the laws of Judaism itself driving that. Might as well find a group of friends who think like you and you can click with and then call that a religion.<br /><br />Following Halacha by upholding the Written and Oral Torah is what a Jew does. That is the definition of a Jew. A community that is based off these principles is a Jewish community. I am sick of the labels. Orthodoxy anyways is a label we have to use thanks to the insurgence of Reform and Conservative Judaism. <br /><br />Ely, a Jew follows the Torah. It is that simple. The Torah says not to judge others. You should be seeking proper Jewish communities for your Jewish identity. Not communities that negate Halacha because that means they a negating something about Judaism too. Nor should you seek communities that don't judge you favorably, cause that is not properly Jewish either. <br /><br />Here is your real problem though: Proper Jewish communities today are rare to find.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1928387059735958551.post-90908708832656575232011-10-27T10:01:47.802-04:002011-10-27T10:01:47.802-04:00I think this post serves as complete hypocrisy to ...I think this post serves as complete hypocrisy to the general purpose of the blog. You claim to want acceptance but by categorizing people into boxes you yourself are denying them the same thing. You don't want to just be seen as a member of the LGBTQ community but you seek to place those who are practicing Orthodoxy, within their own comfort levels, in a box of what they should and should not be doing without any regard for the individual within that community. I think that what these communities seek to solve is the acceptance of individuality (which is not a universal communal bylaw). But to write that they observe superficially without any intimate knowledge of their individual lives and practices is an empty comment and one without merit. Furthermore, you judge "halachic" orthodox communities without any regard for one the most important principles of Judaism, sheviim panim letorah (there are seventy faces to the torah). Halacha is subject to interpretation, specifically within an individuals practice. This article is in itself close minded, and not being open minded to the fact that people are allowed to be exclusive, and to want to practice Judaism to their own level. Separating these communities is creating a further divide in and already split Jewish world. Instead of lauding one community while degrading another, take a closer look at the everyday behaviors of the individuals and then proceed to continue on your way, open minded and non-judgemental, just as you want people to be for you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1928387059735958551.post-85590603141817722682011-10-27T07:06:20.906-04:002011-10-27T07:06:20.906-04:00Hill-
At the very least, the part that is Orthod...Hill- <br /><br />At the very least, the part that is Orthodox is the belief system. A big part of Orthodoxy IS the belief system- the 13 Ikarim, or Principles of Faith. A person can be someone who adheres to these principles- the belief in God, that God is one, that He wrote the Torah, etc- and still not have a desire to follow all the mitzvot, for whatever reason.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1928387059735958551.post-40744062632414700162011-10-27T00:34:46.863-04:002011-10-27T00:34:46.863-04:00Specifically what part of these types picking and ...Specifically what part of these types picking and choosing, yet open minded community is orthodox?Hillnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1928387059735958551.post-44552906479899661782011-10-26T23:06:11.831-04:002011-10-26T23:06:11.831-04:00I appreciate this post as it touches an issue that...I appreciate this post as it touches an issue that has always bothered me. I have always felt ambivalent about the "Communal Orthodox Jew". On the one hand, I laud their commitment to Judaism--going to shul on shabbos even if it means not davening. On the other hand, it is generally these people who instead of sitting quietly contemplating the importance of prayer (while not praying themselves),are chatting with their friend, disturbing others with their nonchalant attitude and at times cynical mockery of Judaism. <br /><br />That is not to say that I have not been that Communal Jew--I have.(I am leaving out "Orthodox" because I feel that at those moments when I am acting in the way you mentioned in your post,I cannot categorize myself as Orthodox). But, the whole issue bothers me.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1928387059735958551.post-65461966593913514692011-10-26T22:50:06.075-04:002011-10-26T22:50:06.075-04:00I couldn't agree more. But then again, I feel ...I couldn't agree more. But then again, I feel like I grew up in such a community.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1928387059735958551.post-33339641329863090802011-10-26T22:48:34.684-04:002011-10-26T22:48:34.684-04:00You are simply describing Orthopraxy, which is not...You are simply describing Orthopraxy, which is nothing new. The only difference between reality and what you are writing here, is that generally ones personal beliefs or their practices outside the public realm aren't know so they are not ostracized and remain apart of the "community."<br /><br />Either way, the point of your last paragraph stands alone without any other support needed.Azinoreply@blogger.com