Monday, November 2, 2009


Not with stress, but with life.
For all who haven’t read it yet-
Now, Here are my thoughts. Good article, yes. Great article, yes. I think this student really captured many of the feelings of an Orthodox Jew in the closet hoping one day ppl will be open to accepting him, and sooner rather than later. He also proposes solutions instead of just complaining. Especially when compared to a YU Article written last year, this one is miles ahead and I proudly salute the author.
However, I’m confused about one thing- why are so many people floored by this article? Why are so many ppl so shocked about the feelings of homosexuality? Did I not go through my own hell and trauma before I came out? If I wrote an article about hardships, would I get the positive response I know this author has gotten from everyone? I believe not and here’s why- the world is more sensitive to someone in the closet. The world is more concerned and caring for someone as long as you don’t know exactly who they are. It's much easier for everyone to be caring and loving when they are talking to an email address, not an actual person. But when it’s someone you know, or someone who’s out, the world is more likely to say ‘oh, him’. And I think until people see that the struggle exists for everyone, and anyone, closeted or not, your best friend or someone you don’t even know, the community will still have made very little progress. No matter how ‘bad’ you feel for someone.


  1. I think you have a point here but there is one point missing. Coming out of the closet is like someone announcing to the whole world that they are mechalel shabos. People are not supposed to publicize their sins. Granted, there is a difference between the two because being a homosexual isnt against halacha unless it is acted upon. I think the major problem with the whole homosexual/frum issue is that this is a relatively new problem. People don't know how to deal with it. Also, people don't know how to deal with this issue because we cannot understand where you are coming from. As much as we want to, we can't. This is why we can't help.

  2. I think the reason this article got a lot of attention was because it was in the Commentator, not on a personal blog.

    I think the other notable thing that was presented in this article was that he made specific requests (most notably the Gay-Straight Alliance) that can be acted upon by people who sympathize with what was written.

    The last thing I want to say is that I think it is very important that you came out, and I would disagree that people feel more concerned for someone in the closet. I think that the tide will turn on people's attitude toward Orthodox homosexuals when more people realize they have a friend or two who are Orthodox homosexuals.

    It's going to take time, but people like you who have come out are forcing a review of the standing taboo.

    Yashar Koach to you.

  3. Much respect for the post.

    I would just say this, as you can see i am posting on ANONYMOUS - why? Because its ridiculous to have an article written in what is supposed to be a legit paper by a no-name.

    I respect the article but cant take it seriously, sorry seems like a publicity stunt.

  4. I hope that what you're describing here is not the case, though you are likely right. I have nothing but the utmost respect and admiration for your courage and the way in which you are dealing with this struggle.

  5. Frum People were impressed by the article because IT WAS IMPRESSIVE. Not because it was signed anonymous!. If the author put his name on the article, people would be MORE impressed!

    Most frum people ARE compassionate...but we can be more so. Please do not paint us as cruel closed minded people who just want to hate. Why would we want anyone to stay closeted and lie to our faces? You are right that we need to start really dealing with Gay Orthodox Jews...and we need to start being more understanding, thats what the article so elequently called for...and doing it in the YU Commentator was hella impressive. One day, I'm sure the author will and should use his real name.

    Funny, you think people are more compassionate or impressed with closeted people. I found the exact opposite thing to be true. I grew up in a frum family, went to Yeshiva all my life, and as long as people were in the closet, people felt able to spew hatred, terrible jokes, and ignore experiences...but once people met ACTUAL people who were gay, everything changed.

    Your blog is great, and the fact that you are actually out is even greater. Keep up the good work, and write some articles for yourself. Also, being that you are out, you should help this guy do what you can to make it an easier place in YU to be gay. Do great things, and people will be impressed. Here's a piece of advice for you though, talking about how you are crushing on your close friends, would be weird for me to hear from straight or gay people...There are very important issues that rabbis, community leaders and students need to start talking about regarding this issue, but if you are stressed about people being impressed and compassionate to YOU, why not talk about those issues...not your creepy secret crushes on your friends.

    Best of luck and keep up the good work.

  6. What I would suggest to you, if you really want to make a difference at YU, is contact the Hanhala in the following way:
    Gather a list of JESUIT universities in the US which have gsa's or equivilent. Their approach is not once of acceptance but one of tolerence and hoping to help students to make sure they don't suffer from depression or attempt/commit suicide. If you present your argument not as a "we're here and we're queer" (which i dont think you are doing) as well as approach them with numbers a reason why they should help you, you might stand a chance.

  7. I diagree with so many things in this article, and I'm genuainely surpised that you havne't critiqued it point by point. I know you put a lot of thought into starting this blog and to some degree made statements to effect of 'taking up a mantle' no offense, and i know you have a life and time constraints but it does not seem like you are doing a very thourough job.

  8. kuch-leffel, I would like to address the ending statement. yes, i hope this blog changes the way people look at things but that is not the sole purpose of it, it's for me, it's an outlet, it's my struggles. and for you to call my crushes creepy is not very sympathetic, i'm trying to explain my daily struggles and i dont think there's anything wrong with it.
    DaJoy- i think i'm confused with who and what u disagree with.

  9. by article i was refering to the yucommentator article.
    I think the rest of it may have been asnwered by your response to kuch-leffel is this just an outlet for you to write to your friends and not really to answer questions? If it is i'll stop bothering you with quetions or simply email you in a private dialogue.

  10. I'm more than happy to answer emails DaJoy :-)

  11. I think the fact that you are out, is probably the single most important thing you can do as a frum gay person living in the orthodox community. Certainly, on that end you have my respect. However, in your post, you asked why the commentator article garnered such an immense poring of compassion, surprise, respect and impressed responses. You didnt feel that you recieved the same level, and you surmised that it must be because you are out of the closet. In this, you are mistaken.

    The real, simple and apparent reason for the difference in response to you, is what you so clearly admit. Your blog, and your expression, seems JUST ABOUT YOU! you make it all about you and seem to forget that there are many frum gay people in the orthodox community. Now, while there is nothing wrong with this, in fact, most blogs are just about their authors, It will never be as impressive, respectable or important as the article in the commentator. Because the author of the commentator was able to see outside himself. He touched on the greater issues, offered interesting (if not naive) solutions, saw this as something that is happening to a lot of people.
    While certainly, he talked about his own struggle, there wasnt a sense of self indulgence or selfish want, that sometimes is apparent in your blogs.

    Dont fret. In the age of Twitter, and Facebook, I think most people actually enjoy the vouyeristic highs of reading other people's private lives. So your blog is great for that. But if you want the Orthodox communtiy to change the way it socially treats their gay members, associating talking about homosexuality with things that maybe should be kept not the smartest approach. Again, even if I thought my random straight friends were secretly romntically or sexually obsessing over me...i would think that thats creepy. Being openly gay, doesnt mean sharing all your crushes with people, or talking about your private fantasies and desires. It means the same thing that being openly straight means: NOT HIDING YOUR ORIENTATION. Dating men, bringing male companions to public events where partners are invited, making it clear that you are not interested in dating women.

    Be careful about coming off, "just doing it for you", especially when you know that so many more struggle with this isssue. and the whole Orthodox community needs help with this issue. the more people think you are 'all about you', the less compelling your arguments, your case, and your experiences will be. It comes off as a little immature. Recently, I watched 'Trembling on the Road' the video addendum to trembling before god, and there was this young guy talking about how, before people in the orthodox community learned that there were other gay people, he felt that he was his "own personal diagnosis" and that was the source of the ignorance. Now the community is starting to realize that this is an issue that we al have to deal with, because it is in every family and every yeshiva. Its not just about him anymore.
    and it's not just about you...but this blog is, and that's fine. I hope you aspire to bigger things.

  12. kuch lefel-
    Considering people post blogs about anything and everything these days, it is extremely wrong and rude of you to comment on how FG's blog is just about HIM. He can do whatever he wants. He is writing about his own struggles, and of course he cares about others, but he is writing about his own personal experiences and thoughts and he is definitley aware he isnt the only one struggling with this, but in no way does he have to discuss it!!!


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