I thought this was clear from the 50+ posts in the past, but based on a recent comment I shall clarify. I do not intend, as the person I am today, to marry a woman. I say today because I never know what kind of things will happen in my life and one day I may wake up and be straight. But odds are slim. So no, I do not plan on marrying a woman.
The way I love men is not something explainable, you can't put in to words what it's like when you have such a strong love, and that's what I have felt for men, not women. My best friends are girls/women who I think are the most amazing people the world and I love them so much, but not as much as I love men, I can't no matter how long I've known them or how many hours I've spent with them, it's not the same as my love for people of the same gender. I hope that makes sense.
For that reason I'm not marrying a woman. But it has been suggested that that is not a good enough reason- that I should just suck it up and follow the Torah's law and marry heterosexually and build a family (not going into how the physical relationship would or would not work), and do things the "natural way". So yes, while plenty of men do that I do not think it's fair for a woman to love me with all her heart while I constantly feel something lacking, and that I can't be as close to her as I feel to a man. I can't imagine putting a woman through the hell of having a husband who's not totally there. It's not fair to HER. So even if I wanted to "get over it" and just pretend like everything is normal, I think that would be even more selfish than coming out and living my own life, it's even worse to ruin someone else's. It's wrong.
If I marry a man is something different and another topic, and something I still have not decided for myself at this point in time. But back to the point, no, I am not planning to marry a woman.
They will survive without you.
ReplyDeleteThat's exactly it. . . I think you speak for a lot of gay (or bisexual) Jews in that regards. It's not about us in the case of marriage. It's about them, and what they will be lacking in a marriage with us. . . that is to say, a heart that is fully devoted to them.
ReplyDeleteI will marry you.
ReplyDeleteFrumGay, is that what you really want? To wake up one morning and be straight?
ReplyDeleteHonestly, would you rather be living your life the "natural way"...
(The Gov is back and better than ever!)
Don't worry, you don't have to do something you don't want to do! Marriage is a serious stuff and it's based on sincerity and love, so I think you're right!People who say that "is not a good enough reason" are people who are not in your situation! It's easier to comment other's life when it is not yours!
ReplyDeleteTo marry a woman in your case is not to pronounce a promise but a LIE!
How can you consider yourself a frum Jew when you come out and say that 'I will disregard' something that is (according to some) the first mitzvah in the Torah (be fruitful and multiply)? Since there is no way to do so (according to Judaism and modern science) outside of the institution of heterosexual marriage, you seem to be saying that you don't intend to keep all the mitzvot, which, by definition, makes you NOT orthodox.
ReplyDeleteI am genuinely curious as to your answer, since for full disclosure, while I live in an Orthodox setting, I do not keep all the mitzvot, and therefore, no longer am able to look at myself as 'frum'.
Seriously? First of all, according to who's definition is anyone "frum"- that word is subjective, and everyone defines "frum" differently.
ReplyDeleteNext, since when does every Jew do every commandment? That's not the case. Ever. No Jew does every mitzvah. Does that mean no Jew is frum?
Third, I have never heard that denial of mitzvah= not frum, and I'm sorry for your lifestyle that forces you to believe that one or two commandments that someone CANNOT do mean they are no longer religious. Many would argue that mine is a situation of Ones (force) where I do not have a choice- I cannot commit this Mitzvah. So a deaf person cannot be frum since they cannot hear the Shofar?
Or would you say it's better for me to, let's say, donate sperm, so at least I'll have children in this world and I will fulfill that Mitzvah. Then I can be Frum.
Yes, seriously.
ReplyDelete"I have never heard that denial of mitzvah = not frum"
That's just my personal perception as to what it means to be an 'Orthodox' observant Jew. To me being frum is not an 'a la carte' option, where one can pick and choose what to observe (though I would acknowledge that's not what happens in practice for most people). Since I do exactly that, I no longer consider myself frum or Orthodox.
"No Jew does every mitzvah. Does that mean no Jew is frum?"
Noone else I know, heard or read about comes out and says it outright - I will not observe this particular mitzvah. They may be lax on their observance, or decide on the spur of the moment to do something prohibited, but not deliberately come out and say so.
This is not in any way a personal attack, since I emphasize with what you are going through. I was just wondering how you personally deal with what I perceive is a huge logical dichotomy.
"situation of Ones"
A situation of Ones in case of 'pru u'rvu' would be a man who is infertile.
"Or would you say it's better for me to, let's say, donate sperm, so at least I'll have children in this world and I will fulfill that Mitzvah. Then I can be Frum."
Maybe. I don't know what the solution is. But in light of my opinions stated above, this would certainly be preferable. Possibly in the future, when genetic engineering will be able to produce a viable embryo without requiring an ovum, there will be no issue.
As I have said in other places on the blog, I take a more open-minded approach to Orthodoxy. I grew up Modern Orthodox, and while I never believe in a pick and choose Judaism, I think there are times where a person needs to do what is best for them, and yes, they can even still call themselves "Orthodox". Most of my friends are Orthodox, my community is Orthodox, my synagogue is Orthodox, my Rabbi's are Orhtodox and accept me as Orthodox. So I am Orthodox. You may not feel I belong/have the 'right' to call myself that, but I have to disagree.
ReplyDeleteDeaf people are halachically disabled and exempt from doing the mitzvot.....are you saying that your homosexuality is a disability?
ReplyDelete